Home Forums Hardware Chi.Bio not detecting fluorescence signal

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  • #1591
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Hello everyone, I am running into some issues with fluorescence expression with Chi.Bio devices. In summary, our Chi.Bio cannot express the fluorescent signal as I expected. I expected that I will have an increasing fluorescence signal toward the increasing OD. Unfortunately, I got the decreasing and constant Normalised FP Emission lines. I only got the expected results in the microplate reader. Maybe there is something wrong with Chibio???
    I have cloned constructs expressing eCFP and E2 Crimson. (briefly, laser power 0.1, gain 512x, 457/35 excitation, Emit1 510/40, Emit2 550/42 for eCFP and 623/30;620/53;670/60 respectively for E2 Crison, ‘Clear’ as baseband)
    I would appreciate any information you may give. Thank you in advance.

    #1592
    harrison
    Keymaster

    Hello;
    1) What media are you running it in. If it is a strongly fluorescent media (e.g. LB) with a not particularly fluorescent strain, it will be difficult to pick out the signal.
    2) The FP graphs show you a value that is normalised to number of cells (approximately) – i.e. it is fluorescence/cell in a.u.. So if you start with cells that are already maximally fluorescent and grow them in the device then you would expect it to stay steady or even go down, as EACH CELL is not getting more fluorescent over time. This is what a plate reader SHOULD show if you put in already fluorescent cells and divide by OD – though in practice you never get such good data from a plate reader due to the impact of different growth phases. If you want to see an uptick in fluorescence in the device during exponential turbidostat growth, then you need some construct which is inducible (via chemical, light , something else…)

    #1593
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Hi Harrison,
    Thank you so much for your prompt reply
    1, Yes, I used LB for both Chibio and the Microplate reader. Does this indicate that the Microplate reader detects the fluorescence signal with greater sensitivity than the Chibio device?

    2, I started with a mixture of 100ul of overnight culture and 19,9ml LB fresh media. Did it achieve maximum fluorescence and growth???

    I haven’t started with turbidostat growth or pump yet. I’ve only recently grown the bacteria in culture and measured the fluorescence signal.

    Sorry, I don’t understand the inducible that you mention. How should I proceed? Could you please provide more information?
    Thank you in advance!

    #1594
    harrison
    Keymaster

    Hello,

    The microplate reader and the chi.bio fluorescence work in different ways. In short, the Chi.Bio one has an array of photodiodes with various filters each of which admits something like a ~30nm band of light. Consequently if there is lots of background fluorescence / media autofluorescence it can leak into this band and wash out your measurement. In contrast plate readers usually have a diffraction grating type spectrometer which allows you to look at narrower wavelength bands.

    The answer to this is, as in the manual, you should use non-fluorescencent media (e.g. M9) rather than LB which is massively autofluorescence. If you do use such media then you should be able to detect fairly small fluorescence signals, particularly if they are time changing. But if not, it will be very difficult to distinguish small fluorescence signals in LB.

    I should also say, the whole point of the turbidostat system is that you can measure time changing fluorescence, and it is MUCH better at this than trying to compare various batch growth curves (e.g. without pumping) in which the dynamics of growth mess with your fluorescence. Doing batch growth is difficult in such a large volume since it inevitably leads to larger inter-experiement variation (e.g. due to media/growth/optics inhomogeneity) than small volumes, and this is why we recommend inducing things DURING experiments rather than before with Chi.Bio, as you then get much higher quality data. I.e. you put your biosensor in, grow it to exponential phase for a while, then add inducer chemical, then see how it responds over time – gives you great data w.r.t dynamic and absolute response levels.

    Another note in this direction is that the system is designed to return fluorescence per cell, rather than absolute fluorescence (as in a plate reader). So, the output it gives in the UI is more like a plate reader if you calculate fluorescence/OD.

    #1636
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Thanks so much for your suggestion. However, I still have trouble with the fluorescence signal. The data file of Chi.bio contains FP1 base and FP1 emit1. If I want to obtain the same fluorescent output as a Microplate reader. Which calculation must I perform? Thank you in advance!

    #1638
    harrison
    Keymaster

    Hello, did you do the things above – e.g. using non-fluorescent media and making sure the cells are FAIRLY fluorescent? I.e. not very low copy fluorescent reporters…

    #1639
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Yes. I did, I used M9 media, I tried Chemostat as well. I always got the same results every time

    #1640
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Also, Do UI Data Plotting’s Normalised FP Emission graphs represent the fluorescence results? Could you please explain FP1 base and FP1 emit1 in the CSV data file? Which formula should I use to calculate fluorescence graph? It confuses me

    #1641
    harrison
    Keymaster

    Hello. Please read the supplementary information of the paper here: https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000794
    It explains it in detail. Both how the data is produced, what the Emit/Excite/Base bands mean, and also what the baseline reading is that should be subtracted.

    #1642
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Hello, we have increased the LED intensity level to 0.5 and it seems that we have detected a fluorescence signal. However, after running overnight, the reactor is no longer able to function; a light is constantly flashing. Even after I switched their connection, the control no longer detects that device. There are no problems with the data file. The file data looks ok same as the others. No error message. Do you have any ideas about what might be the cause of the problem? How could we fix it? Thanks so much.

    #1643
    harrison
    Keymaster

    Hello
    Do you know if the liquid in the reactor overflowed at any time? This is the most likely reason. If I were you I would go through the troubleshooting guide in the manual, particularly w.r.t cleaning the top of the reactor moisture sensing tracks.

    #1644
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    No. I did not use the pumping in this case. I checked the troubleshooting guide, they did not mention the constantly flashing light.

    #1645
    harrison
    Keymaster

    By light do you mean the main LED? I assume you have tried plugging that reactor into other ports, and re-started the computer? I assume you have not re-written the code in any way?
    It is an unusual problem. I do not see how it would have broken if you are ONLY using it for fluorescent measurement.
    If after resetting and updating software etc, it still flashes, it may be a manufacturing defect for which you would need to get in touch with Labmaker

    #1646
    vuthuhien97
    Participant

    Hi, Yes I mean the main LED. Yes, I tried plugging that reactor into other ports, and re-started the computer, but still. I only used fluorescent measurements and did not re-written the code.
    The only changed is the LED intensity level was set at 0.5. However, I suppose that level is fine, am I right?
    The link is the flashing light video of the reactor.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D-WdAEL0hgOEl0yujGJJCQH1Yba0w_DN/view?usp=share_link

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by vuthuhien97.
    #1647
    vuthuhien97
    Participant
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